"...- Ernesto Pesce: And then I started a new series, which I called "Long Live the Middle Class". And in 1982-83, there was another series called "The Sufferers of Rhetoric", which included a certain social criticism...

-Raúl Santana: What does that mean, the sufferers of rhetoric?

-EP: Well, it was the advent of the Radical party's politics. I was pretty taken aback by the Radical triumph, kind of knocked out.

-RS: It was the first time that the Peronist party was defeated in an election.

-EP: The public monuments also appeared in my work, and a kind of frivolous middle class. I intended to work on the frivolousness of that class, that was so happy and triumphant as opposed to the working class, which had received a blow. Well, that was what I felt, and those drawings had that content. There are some monuments and some figures, that circulate in motorcycles around the monuments, like monuments that were senseless, a kind of emptied symbols: The Workers Monument or or San Martín´s Monument, Lola Mora´s Monument... They were signs of something that had been lost, as opposed to that frivolousness.

-RS: You had methaphoric intentions.

-EP: I had the same feeling with the Costanera.

-RS: Had you already begun with the Costanera series?

-EP: Yes, it appeared in the middle of the Erotica series and the Middle Class series.

-RS: And at that time, did people speak about "the ´80's"? Because there was a kind of dialectic that contested that art in the ´70s was very controlled, without ruptures. People even talked about masoquism, and that such art could only appear during the military period. Whereas the ´80s, a time when a kind of neoexpressionism appeared, were considered like returning to freedom and to the pleasure of painting. How do you see yourself in this context?

-EP: I couldn´t deny that during the years of repression, and not by chance, I did such introspective work. I must have done what I did for a reason. But at least, consciously, the Immigration work, for instance, was a simple homage to my elders. Later, when the ´80s come along, and all that period of freedom that you refer to appears, my work evidently begins to be more open and free, but not so much as to say that the change is so determined and conditioned by the advent of democracy."